ignition problems/engine won't run

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beko
Posts: 5
Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2008 9:04 pm

ignition problems/engine won't run

Post by beko »

hi please don't mention my bad englisch,I am from holland.
I have problems with my ns400r.
there is a small spark on all three sparkplugs,but the engine won't start.
there were some problems ago with the tacho meter(it flucturates and when doing 3000revs it's shows about 5000revs)
sometime's the engine won't start(what ever I tried) and then suddenly it runs.(when it's running,it's running properly and it can stall after that and you have the same problem again)
I suspect the ignitionsystem.
I messured the low and high speed coil in the stator.
one is 27 ohm(=good) and the other is 200 ohm (instead of 250-350 ohm)
can this be the problem?
the CDI's are tested and seem to be good.(a specialy company did the work)
ignitioncoils are good(I meassured these with a ohm meter)
both pulse coils are good(200 ohm)
I can't find any wiring problems between the stator and CDI unit's.
black/white is disconnected from the CDI unit's.
is there something that I forgot to check?
hope to get some information about this problem.
I have already a orginal manual.
thanks,

bert kok

holland

Ian
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Re: ignition problems/engine won't run

Post by Ian »

Did you fix the tacho problems that you had before ?

Don't worry about your English, I still haven't met an English man that speaks Dutch. :D

Thierry
Posts: 39
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2006 11:04 pm
Location: Belgium

Re: ignition problems/engine won't run

Post by Thierry »

Geachte Bert,

Drie of vier jaren geleden heb ik dezelfde probleem gehad met mijn Bandit 400. Een keer wilde het straten en dan niet meer en ik wist niet waarom. Ik heb de CDI in Holland gestuurd (de naam van de bedrijf herinner ik niet, maar t'is wel een beroemde bedrijf - er zijn er maar 2). Ze hebben de CDI getest en hebben niks gevonden. Ik heb toch een tweedehands CDI gekocht en weet je wat ? Geen enkel probleem meer... Misschien ken je iemand die je een andere CDI kan laten proberen ? Waar woon jij precies ? Ik ben uit Wavre in Belgïe.

Fro the english speaking people, the same story happened with my own Suzuki GSF400 and, even after having the CDI checked by some expert people, I decided to buy a spare one and the problems where over.
NS400R, NS50R, YSR125, Harris Decorite Rotax, RZ500 engined RGV250, KTM 500MX, KSR80, TDR80, Bimota V-Due, TZ350.

beko
Posts: 5
Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2008 9:04 pm

Re: ignition problems/engine won't run

Post by beko »

thanks ian and thierry.
ian ;the story of the ns400r .
a year ago the tacho problems occurs,there were no problems with the engine.
only once the engine won't start.
with some guys we pusched the bike in second gear and after some time suddenly:bang and the engine ran.
that was one year ago.
so 3 months ago,I sent the CDI's for a check to a company and they seems to be ok.(because of the tacho problems)
I also checked the wiring in the meantime ,and nothing seems to be wrong.
after getting the CDI"S back and installed,the tacho worked good ...(only for three days and the tacho problems are back and the engine won't run either).
there is a weak spark at all three sparkplugs,but it won't run.
there are no carb. problems.
I suspect the low revs coil in the stator.
correct me if I am wrong ,but it has to feed the CDI's at low revs.?
so I think the 200 ohm is to low and so there is not enough power for the CDI's,and perhaps it also gives the tacho problems.
I don't have any spareparts and thats the reason why asking for some help.
hope thant anyone can help me.
thanks ,

bert kok

beko
Posts: 5
Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2008 9:04 pm

Re: ignition problems/engine won't run

Post by beko »

hi thanks for all the replay.
i have found the problem.
it's the recticifier!
without the recticifier the engine runs well.
when engine is running 1000 revs,I put on the connector and then suddenly the engine stops and is hard to start again.
with the connector off,the engine is running again.
i can't find any connection in the wiring diagram.
i tried this several time's and still the same thing.
the tacho is working good with the new recticifier.
perhaps something for someone with the same problems.
so thanks for all.

regards
bert

Ian
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Re: ignition problems/engine won't run

Post by Ian »

Glad your've found the problem Beko.
Must have been some type of short in the rectifier that was overloading the coils and causing the problem.

beko
Posts: 5
Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2008 9:04 pm

Re: ignition problems/engine won't run

Post by beko »

yes when checking the recticifier with a ohm meter,you can check the diode's and that is were the problem is.
but when checking the voltage on the battery ,you can't find a problem. it's between the 13,5V and 14,5V.
but there will be some peak voltage on higher revs in the tachometer that will cause the tachoproblems.

bert kok

Jon
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Location: Vancouver

Re: ignition problems/engine won't run

Post by Jon »

Bert,

Congrats on sorting out your ignition problem. I have the same symptoms you list and had orignally searched the archives here and had concluded I had the stator/exciter problem. The rectifier (regulator) idea is new.

I guess I don't understand how the rectifier was faulty if was in fact charging the battery correctly (between 13.5 -14.5 V). Did you do this test at various rpm? Perhaps it was overcharing at higher rpms or was intermittant in some way? My experience with regulators on motorycycles is that they either fail by: 1) not charging at all or by 2) overcharging.

What kind of regulator did you use to repace the stock one? Honda unit or aftermarket?

Thanks!

Jon

beko
Posts: 5
Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2008 9:04 pm

Re: ignition problems/engine won't run

Post by beko »

hi i will try to explain.
first I bought an aftermerket rectifier; RF18,it's for the ns400r.
what' is happen: I think that the rectifier is damaged by the use of an lead battery that I mounted 4 years ago or perhaps the age is the reason,I don't know.
the diodes are shortend,but will charge the battery.
perhaps the current for a orginal battery is different as for the lead type and perhaps that's the reason the lead one is not overpowerd.
however try this: unmount the rectifier and the battery,and try to start again.
it worked by my bike.
I think that the shortend rectifier makes negative magnetic waves in the stator,so the energie in the low and high speed coils are blocked.
(if anyone can explain this in better english,please do)
I hope you can do something with this information.

regards
bert kok

Jon
Posts: 7
Joined: Thu Mar 16, 2006 1:18 am
Location: Vancouver

Re: ignition problems/engine won't run

Post by Jon »

Hi Bert,

Thanks for your history on this. I did have a battery fail last year on the NS so perhaps I also have damaged the regulator. I will test it out and report back.
I have found someone who can re-wind the stator so one way or another, we'll get this fixed!

ns86
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Re: ignition problems/engine won't run

Post by ns86 »

Hi everyone, I am new to the forum and I recently had a problem with my ns on my first ride of the season. The battery was dead but the bike ran fine without it so off I went . Everything was fine, cleaned it out thru the gears , a bit of sputter hi up but that was just cleaning the fogging out. I ran the bike for a half hour and it suddenly died while cruising along. I tried for a while to get it going but no luck, it didn't show any sign of firing. Trucked it home and got a new battery. It fired right away but would not run. I don't have any spare parts so I really don't know what's wrong. I could use a spare CDI and rectifier anyway so I will be trying that at some point but I was wondering if someone has some advice or similar experience. Thanx in advance
Last edited by ns86 on Sat Apr 17, 2010 8:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

fredie
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Location: sydney australia

Re: ignition problems/engine won't run

Post by fredie »

gday . your welcome :mrgreen:

Channel Hopper
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Joined: Thu Sep 23, 2004 5:26 pm

Re: ignition problems/engine won't run

Post by Channel Hopper »

ns86 wrote:Hi everyone, I am new to the forum and I recently had a problem with my ns on my first ride of the season. The battery was dead but the bike ran fine without it so off I went . Everything was fine, cleaned it out thru the gears , a bit of sputter hi up but that was just cleaning the fogging out. I ran the bike for a half hour and it suddenly died while cruising along. I tried for a while to get it going but no luck, it didn't show any sign of firing. Trucked it home and got a new battery. It fired right away but would not run. I don't have any spare parts so I really don't know what's wrong. I could use a spare CDI and rectifier anyway so I will be trying that at some point but I was wondering if someone has some advice or similar experience. Thanx in advance
Running without a battery at all is likely to cause damage to all the electrics on the bike.

The battery not only gives out electricity for things to run, it is also a sink to dampen down fluctuations in the charging circuit, as well as provide the bike with a known ground point (0 Volts).
Even a battery that is on its way out - broken/damaged cells or even one with low electrolyte can shorten the life of the regulator system.

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